Hardball with Chris Matthews, Transcript 2/23/2017

by:Y&M Crafts     2019-08-24
Show: tough Chris rodwsdate: guest of February 23, 2017: Ken Vogel, Jon Rosen, ravincox, Travis Webb, Mark Payne, Michelle BernardCHRIS Matthews, host: the magic weapon in the bed.
Let\'s play hard ball. Good evening.
I\'m Chris Matthews from Washington.
When the Conservative Political Action Conference-which started last year, there was debate about whether Donald Trump, as a rebel Republican candidate, really represented the conservative movement.
Now, President Trump will be speaking at tomorrow\'s annual meeting, and it is clear that his conservative brand has become popular.
Today, White House strategist Steve Bannon told CPAC\'s audience that the president will fulfill his campaign agenda at all costs. (
Start Video Editing)
White House strategist Steve Bannon: every day, it\'s going to be a fight, and that\'s where I\'m most proud of Donald Trump, all the opportunities he has to give up, all of them came to him and said, oh, he told Raines and me that you must be gentle-every day in the Oval Office, I promised this to the American people.
I promised this when I was running, and I will deliver on this promise. (
Cheers and applause)
Matthews: But after Milo iannopoulos was removed from the CPAC for aggressive remarks the other day, we see again, after Trump\'s win, how the far right edge molecules are close to penetrating conservative movements.
Well, today, Richard Spencer, head of the white nationalist group, was stripped of his credentials and escorted out of the CPAC after an impromptu media meeting with reporters.
Here\'s how Spencer explains what\'s going on with NBC\'s Kasie Hunt. (Start Video)
NBC reporter kasie hunt: What happened here?
Did they deprive you of your certificate at CPAC?
Richard Spencer of the National Policy Institute: Yes, they did.
I think this is their right to do so.
Hunter: but they sent it to you in the first place.
Spencer: Yes, they sent it to me in the first place.
What are their reasons?
Did they just find out who you are or . . . . . . Spencer: I think they just found out who I am.
The truth is, people want to talk to me.
They don\'t want to talk to these boring conservatives.
I think everyone-everyone recognizes that there must be identity politics in the world, we White define America, but we are now-we are now experiencing an increasing number of minority status. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Matthews: this will test your belief in the 1st Amendment.
In any case, a CPAC spokesman said Spencer was not welcome on the forum.
At the same time, with conservatives announcing their new agenda in Washington-right here-Republican city halls across the country staged a very different scene.
In fact, progressive voters in the Republican constituency continue to struggle with members of Congress, shouting angrily at elected delegates yesterday to express their concerns. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified Woman: What would you do to help show this man\'s tax return in Congress? (
Cheers and applause)
Woman: We need to know! SEN. TOM COTTON (R)
Arkansas: The way we decide who is our commanderin-
The main leader of the country is through elections.
We just had an election. (BOOS)
The former president presented his birth certificate. My God! (
Cheers and applause)
My daughter has cancer!
She is 23 years old.
She thinks nobody cares, especially Senator Cassidy! SEN. DEAN HELLER (R)
Nevada: Let me share with you what I have done in the last 10 years. (CROSSTALK)
Hailer: I made a phone call.
Town Hall for the past 10 years. (BOOS)
I\'m Mary story (ph)
I\'m from Fayettville, not a paid protester. (
Cheers and applause)
Unidentified women: Before we get anything in this country, we need to make sure that our president is not a puppet of Putin. (
Cheers and applause)(END VIDEO CLIP)MATTHEWS: Wow.
Well, it\'s a vivid split-screen that shows the growing differences between Trump\'s US.
Now let\'s go to CPAC, where Kasie Hunt from NBC is.
Thank you, Kasie.
That interview with Spencer was-I don\'t know if this is instructive, but the comments he gave you about the white advantage and all this nonsense are a bit creepy.
He\'s not hiding.
Hunter: he obviously didn\'t hide his views, and-you know, it\'s a bit difficult to ask these questions in this forum and be completely honest with you, Chris.
But obviously the organizer wants him to leave.
They want to make sure that the headline about this is about the fact that he was thrown away, not about him-you know, the fact that he appeared.
He stood in the corridor.
After the comments you mentioned by Milo iannopoulos and him, he held an impromptu press conference.
Of course, before he made a comment on underage sex, he was a special speaker, and you know, that prompted the organizers to say, you know?
This is totally untenable.
But you know, Richard Spencer created a similar dispute today.
I think, really, it-it really highlights the differences that are going on between Conservatives at this meeting, and how uncomfortable some of their factors about some of the critics around Donald Trump will say they are inciting or encouraging them, of course, they are the ones who praise Donald Trump, they held a meeting.
After his election, Richard Spencer held a speech in Washington called \"Long Live Trump.
Of course, he was beaten twice at the inauguration.
Very difficult fighting (ph).
I think you also saw a show on stage between Steve Bannon and Raines pribas.
Matthews: Dan Schneider, executive director of CPAC, said today that people like Richard Spencer have hijacked alt-right.
Let\'s hear what he said. (
Start Video Editing)
Dan Schneider, cpac exec. DIR.
Just a few years ago, this hatredfilled left-
The wing fascist group hijacked \"alt-right.
\"We know who these people are.
They met in Washington, DC a few months ago. C.
Express their hatred and pay tribute to \"long live Hitler. They are anti-Semites.
They\'re racist.
They don\'t exist.
They hate the Constitution.
They hate the free market.
They hate diversity.
They hate everything and despise everything we believe. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: What do you think?
I mean, I don\'t know if this is a conservative statement.
This resonated in the room. what is he talking about, diversity?
Hunter: Look, I think-I think we did have a resonance in the room we were in, Chris.
I mean, so if you look at that disagreement more broadly, it\'s clear that Richard Spencer is-and I think many people here are going to say that we\'re talking about the edge.
Steve Bannon has been criticized for being a person who encouraged alt.
Does his website Breitbart encourage alt-right.
He sits on stage next to Reince Priebus, who has been the president of the Republican Party for the past few years, if any-if anyone represents the Republican party, yes, it is Reince Priebus.
They sat together on the stage, and I looked at them together, especially when Bannon was talking, and there were definitely people who were very excited.
He joked, Hey, thank you for inviting me this time.
A lot of people are excited.
But I would say there are a lot of people just sitting in their seats listening.
They don\'t have to cheer.
They don\'t have to stand up.
There is still a strong discomfort in different types-I don\'t even know what I want to call wings.
I would say that there are some conservative movements that don\'t fully know how to deal with this kind of conservatism in the United States, and that there has been a new voice in this past election cycle ---MATTHEWS: Yes.
Hunter:-since President Trump took office.
They just don\'t know how to solve the problem.
You can see a version of it on stage.
You can feel it in the crowd.
You can feel that, you know, the head of the CPAC said to me privately that we are doing everything we can to distract Richard Spencer from what he is doing now in the hallway. MATTHEWS: Yes.
Hunter: I think it helps explain what Dan Schneider said on stage.
I mean, there is a strong discomfort here.
But the reality is that Bannon also said above-you played too-we fight every day.
We do such things every day.
He knows how to motivate people who respond to such things.
From what he said today, it sounds like a focus-Chris.
Matthews: I see.
I think Bannon looks like Bannon.
He acts like a Bannon and sounds like a Bannon.
When you see him and hear him, he sounds like you think.
Who does he look like.
In any case, thanks for the wonderful report from Kasie Hunt.
Thank you, Chris.
Matthews: grass-roots energy at city halls across the country has led some Republicans to even avoid meetings.
Today, Republican Congressman Louis gocht from Texas cited Gaby Gifford-Gaby Gifford\'s name to justify his decision not to arrange Town Hall
Grab this low. brow behavior.
He doesn\'t want to have a municipal meeting now, at-2027 in February 20, actually, after a period of time.
That\'s why he said.
Quoting this sentence, \"some violent tendencies groups of left-wing ideology, some even paid, are vandalizing and threatening public safety in public town halls.
This is a member of Congress.
\"Sergeant\'s houseat-
The arms company told us that former Congresswoman Gabby GIF Fords was shot dead in public appearances, and that the civilian attendees of public congressional activity were most likely to be hurt or killed, as happened there.
Former Congressman Gabby GIF Fords himself then responded with this statement to what Gohmert said today.
\"For politicians who have given up their civic obligations, I say so.
Have some courage.
Face your voters
City Hall is held.
Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who also met a protester today, asked him why he did not hold any town hall meetings this week. (
Start Video Editing)
Male :(INAUDIBLE)town hall?
There is a town hall today.
Senator, we need your word. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: now with me is the national political correspondent for The Washington Post, Robert Costa, political analyst for MSNBC, and Jon Laston, editor of the Nevada Independent.
\"First of all, I want to follow up on what Kasie Hunt just said.
In my opinion, historically, there is a real disconnect between what Trump sells and what conservatives have called Conservatives for years.
Conservatives basically support free trade.
They are somewhat hawkish.
I mean, you go through all the issues that Trump seems to have, and they go in another direction.
Now they are all lined up behind him, but I can understand what Kasi said, and it\'s not entirely comfortable for them to call themselves a Tegra conservative.
Before we get to town hall, I want to talk about this one first-Robert.
Robert Costa, Washington Post, MSNBC political analyst: Bannon has always been a mysterious figure inside the White House, Chris, today, he gave a clear account of his entire agenda and that of President Trump.
He said he \"wants to deconstruct the administrative state \".
\"Tonight I\'m leaving CPAC for hard work, and I\'m crowded with Nigel Farage, the UK\'s Brexit leader, who says Bannon\'s vision is more than just inside the US. S. , it`s global. He wants to up-
To put an end to the political order, he articulated this goal to CPAC today.
Matthews: what effect?
Right or left?
What is the goal of Bannon?
Costa: In his view, this is actually about destroying the right wing --
The left norms of American politics make it establish and oppose
Nationalism and globalization.
Whether the project will succeed or not, we will wait and see.
But for the conservative right, it\'s a different program, not a traditional Republican agenda in any case.
Matthews: Jon larston, if you have power, you will soon be in power.
You know, we \'ve seen members of Congress-Senator of Arkansas-talk, well, talk to my staff later, or-you know, or, I\'ll arrange a meeting for you.
You know, he started talking like a typical cop who has been in office for too many years.
How fast the defector was founded.
Now, they are facing the people of these town halls as those in power.
Jon larston, Nevada Independent: that\'s exactly right, Chris.
You\'re talking about Tom Coton. I saw it too.
But I think that in this thorough deconstruction of political norms, it also makes Robert talk a little bit about the fact that labels become meaningless in this deconstruction.
I think a lot of us miss Trump\'s appeal, not because he\'s conservative or liberal.
He is different.
He speaks like a lot of normal people, not like the media elite, he uses adjectives, he seems to be a real person\'s way, and that\'s how people react during the campaign.
But as you point out, the campaign is over now, Chris.
Now he is the president of the United States.
When you see what\'s going on at these town halls, people want him to be fulfilled and people are impatient with campaign promises.
They don\'t want to wait.
They want a better life.
They want to make sure they don\'t lose health care.
It will be the key to the whole thing, and despite what Bannon\'s world is, he can impose that on the president.
Matthews: one of the things I learned to work on the mountain is that the difference between O\'Neal and Ronald Reagan is that O\'Neal spent 40 or 50 years dealing with voter issues.
You will soon realize that in work like Congress, the left or the Republican or the Democratic Party, some people are sick, they are old, they need help, they have children with problems, they face education challenges, special education challenges.
These are the realities of the world. if you meet someone, you will be in touch once you are elected.
Robert, what I saw at these town halls was the letters (INAUDIBLE)
I used to get senators and members of Congress that I have worked.
People are real, it has nothing to do with ideology.
They are not fighting for walls, Muslim bans or anything else, nor are they discussing poster issues with Trump.
They\'re bugging his guy, mine-I want my Social Security check.
I\'m 76 years old.
Where is my check?
I\'m worried about health insurance.
Who will pay for my --(INAUDIBLE)
You know, about me. payment.
These are the real problems.
I got the \"Obama Care\" and now they call it, you know-what they call it, the Affordable Health Care Act, the ACA now.
Not ideological. It`s real. They`re on it.
People without health care die. Robert…(CROSSTALK)
Matthews :. . . . . . As an on-the-job person, you have to be an adult --up.
On-the-job personnel must grow-ups.
Costa: they feel like they have grown up.
When I was talking to their assistant at the Capitol, ups.
But the biggest question I have as a journalist is, what is the threshold?
All Republicans in the House and Senate, together with President Trump and Steve Bannon, discuss what is the threshold for this nationalist, populist agenda, because they are challenged at these town halls, because they saw that the Pew survey showed Trump was more popular than they were, they were locked in a box.
So at this point, they can\'t break with Trump politically.
They did not see such an opportunity.
But they also realized that there were some warnings on the agenda.
Bannon said he wants to destroy the country, but you can\'t hear him pursuing social security and medical insurance.
So these Republicans, they just want to know when they will have a really popular view for them and they don\'t have to go with Trump.
Matthews: what happens when Steve Bannon returns to Los Angelesla-
Land and those members of Congress are still trying to maintain-Jon Laston, that\'s a problem.
Soon, this is a question, isn\'t it?
If you have an idea for a political career, you are not a political day trader like Bannon, oh, this time will work in this era, but after two weeks someone is going to pay the hospital bill. You know?
You\'re right, Chris.
You are completely correct. These people are voters. they are voters who have real problems.
We saw this when Dean Heller went-it was supposed to be a business lunch that suddenly turned into a City Hall.
They want these people to be able to reach out to them and talk to them about their own problems.
They don\'t care what the Spirit of Washington\'s time is, what Bannon is doing, and who controls it . . . . . . Matthews: I know.
Between Priebus and Bannon.
They wanted Dean Heller to say, come and talk to us, and Dean Heller acted like a politician and said, I have a telephone town hall.
We all know what this is about.
Unless they do-it\'s February 23, 2019, Chris, you know.
Let\'s talk about what happened to them in six months and what the Trump numbers look like.
We don\'t know yet.
But it is clear that if this becomes an infection and continues, it will be a real problem no matter what happens in Washington.
Matthews: One of my heroes, Gene McCarthy, when he left the Senate after years, he said it was a job and I didn\'t want it.
It\'s a real job. (INAUDIBLE)
One of the things to give a speech in New Hampshire is-to be a hero against Hampshire
But he went back to Minnesota and said I really didn\'t like the job.
I think many politicians realize that this is not like the president of the student union.
All you have to do is run the mixer.
Anyway, thank you, Robert Costa, thank you, John Laston, Nevada.
Next-The Trump administration overthrew the federal government\'s protection of transgender toilets in public schools.
Well, it\'s a huge failure for the LGBT community-in the short term.
When we get back, we get a response from actress Laverne Cox to Trump.
It will be a very close dialogue.
This is a hard ball. where is the action. (
Business break)
Matthews: next Tuesday night, MSNBC will fully report on President Trump\'s first speech at a joint session of Congress that night.
Starting at 8: 00 eastern time, Brian Williams and Rachel Maddow will join me in the president\'s speech.
After the speech, join me for a special late night hardcover edition at midnight.
I want a whole.
Including the star lineup of big names such as Michael Moore, Bill Mel, Kathy Griffin and Rob Reina.
You won\'t believe the show at midnight next Tuesday night.
I expect these guests to have some interesting reactions to the president\'s speech.
It\'s a hard ball, late at night, and the eastern midnight on Tuesday night is coming.
We will be back soon. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Former US president LynchS.
Attorney general: Let\'s reflect on the country --
The discrimination of recognition never looked good and did not work afterwards.
But no matter how isolated, no matter how scared, no matter how lonely you are today, know that the Justice Department, even the entire Obama administration, wants you to know that we see you, we stand with you and we will protect you as much as we can.
Please know that history is on your side. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
Just last spring, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch spoke directly to the transgender community in the country and made sure they were protected under President Obama.
Yesterday, the Trump administration announced the cancellation of the federal guidelines issued by the Obama administration to protect transgender students.
These guidelines allow these students to use public school bathrooms and dressing rooms that correspond to their gender identity, rather than the gender on the birth certificate.
The move was made by the Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who is expected to begin withdrawing the expanded protection of civil rights of the Obama administration.
However, the New York Times reported that the Minister of Education, Betsy DeVos, had raised objections to the meeting, and he wrote: \"Mr. Betsy DeVos
Ms Sessions against the expansion of rights for gay, lesbian and transgender people
Let DeVos relax.
After not getting any progress, he raised objections to the White House because he could not move forward without her consent. Mr.
Republicans said Trump supported his attorney general and told Hillary Clinton.
At a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday, DeVos said he wanted her to give up her opposition.
\"Well, tonight, protests are taking place at the iconic Stonewall Hotel in New York, where demonstrators are gathering to protect transgender students and ordinary people.
Well, tonight, Trump seems sympathetic-or what he did to transgender issues during the 2016 campaign.
Here\'s what he said on the \"Today Show\" in last April. (
Start Video Editing)DONALD TRUMP (R)
The president of the United States: one of the best answers I have heard is yesterday a commentator said that\'s it now.
Few questions.
That\'s it.
People go and they use the bathroom they think is right.
The trouble is so small. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Matthews: So why did you decide to rekindle this cultural war the other day?
Now with me is Laverne Cox, an actor and lawyer.
She is known for playing a trans-sex prisoner in \"Orange Is the New Black\" and currently starred in \"Doubt\" on CBS.
Thank you for joining us.
Give us a feeling.
You\'re not here to argue.
You are here to explain the reality of transgender people and what this reversal in progress under the Obama administration means for real people.
Actress ravencox: First of all, thank you so much for letting me be here today.
When the current Attorney General Loretta Lynch made an incredible statement last year, I was very moved and I felt for the first time that our federal government recognized the human nature and dignity of transgender people and felt that we were moving towards a turning point.
These guidelines were withdrawn by this government yesterday, feeling that we are going backwards.
I think it sends a message to transgender people across the country that we are not safe in this country.
We\'re ashamed of it.
It insulted us.
It forces us to be invisible and not to be ourselves.
This is really a terrible place. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: Why do you think Trump is doing this?
He\'s a man in a big city.
He grew up in a variety of circumstances.
He doesn\'t have the impression of me as some Yahoo decided, I don\'t know who people like him really are.
He knows many people with different backgrounds, different orientations and different identities.
Why would he do something like this, which is very inconsistent with what he said before the office?
Cox: Well, I think we-everybody in the LGBT community understands that the vice president, the current Minister of Justice is very counter-productive. LGBT.
So it\'s not surprising, given the government and the people he hires.
Matthews: So, do you think they\'re giving orders?
I can imagine, yes.
But I think, at the end of the day, we must highlight the humanity of cross-ethnic groups and enhance the story of cross-ethnic groups.
It was very frustrating for me to watch the comments without a real transgender person present.
That\'s why I want to play a trans voice for this conversation here today. MATTHEWS: OK.
Let\'s talk about reality.
I hope I won\'t embarrass anyone because I\'m not here.
I just wanted to know about the public policy and rights issues here.
You go. -I just got back in LaGuardia today.
You go to the men\'s or women\'s toilets.
Make your own decisions.
You make a decision.
What does this have to do with these decisions, is this our back and forth decision from Obama to Trump on which room you should enter?
Cox: Well, what my friend Chase Strangio, who works at ACLU, said was so wonderful that these-
The cross-bathroom bill is not about the bathroom.
What they are concerned about is whether we would like and believe that transgender people have the right to survive in public space. MATTHEWS: Yes.
Cox: when transgender people can\'t use the public bathroom, we can\'t go to school effectively, we can\'t go to work effectively, we can\'t use the health care facility.
This is about our existence in public space.
Those who oppose transgender access to facilities that are consistent with how we identify them know that everything they claim has not actually happened.
It\'s really about the people we don\'t exist, about removing trans.
If we look at Bill 1266 of California and Congress, which was signed into law by Jerry Brown in 2013 and implemented three years ago, January 1, 2014, it basically allows transgender students in California to use facilities that are consistent with our identity.
Nothing terrible happened.
In fact, trans-gender students feel the support of schools and administrative departments, which gives them room to thrive.
This is the space that we should thrive for all of our young people, not be smacked out and picked out.
Matthews: You are a great representative of this show.
Thank you very much.
I\'m glad, Laverne, that you\'re here tonight to talk about it when it\'s important.
We must debate these issues.
They are sensitive questions, but they are what we have to get.
Thank you so much for coming here and being a great American and making your case so smooth. COX: Of course.
Matthews: Thank you. COX: Of course.
DoNews: Mara Keisling is the executive director of the National Centre for trans-gender equality.
Travis Webb is the director of the Religious Freedom Center of the Family Research Council.
Well, I don\'t know how to deal with this except common sense.
I want to be with you, Travis. Excuse me.
I want to start with Travis.
You just saw ravinne.
What bathroom should she use at the airport? Just tell me.
Give her advice.
Pretend you\'re her best friend.
What bathroom should she use?
Travis Webb of the Family Research Council: Chris, we want to make sure that local and school districts have the ability to decide what\'s best for them.
We have to know exactly what\'s going on here.
Matthews: What should she do?
Webb: Would you like to hear my answer to this?
Matthews: I want you to answer my question. WEBER: Right.
So, I want to answer your question here.
So, actually, here\'s a question of the federal government taking power from the local.
President Trump said the federal government should not authorize it.
Let the place decide(CROSSTALK)
Matthews: Which bathroom should she use?
Weber: It depends on . . . . . . (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: you care about this.
Which bathroom should we go? WEBER: Yes.
So, it depends on where I am, right?
If I were in a place with no questions and a school district, my answer might be different. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: No, you\'re here.
You came in on your own.
I appreciate your courage.
Tell me what the correct answer is. (CROSSTALK)
Weber: I mean, I want to have a conversation about it, but are you afraid to hear my explanation or answer?
Matthews: almost no. Hardly. Hardly afraid.
Webb: You have to let me know the answer.
Matthews: The way we do these projects is they are called interview programs.
I interview people.
You answered the question when you showed up on the show. WEBER: Right.
So it\'s important to have an answer if someone asks this question. Right?
So, as far as Gloucester is concerned, in this case, they provide accommodation for that student.
The accommodation is not ideal now.
Other school districts, they may have no problem.
They can decide the problem separately.
At Palatine, your students are afraid of their privacy.
The privacy of these students is . . . . . . (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: suddenly, the president of the United States was involved in such a thing.
He doesn\'t have to do what he did the other day.
The president now says he will withdraw the guidelines issued by his predecessor.
His predecessor said that basically you go to the most comfortable bathroom instead of the bathroom that matches your birth certificate.
What does this mean in real life?
Most people are not transgender.
They want to know what the situation is and what it looks like.
Mara keisling, executive director, National Centre for the equality of transgender people: Absolutely.
Well, these guides are not about the bathroom.
The bathroom is included in it, but it is only a small part.
They let the children go to school, let them have dignity, and let them adapt like all the other children.
But Travis was wrong.
The reason we have federal civil rights laws is that your rights as a minority, no matter what a minority, should not be based on what the individual country wants, what the individual ZIP Code wants.
Travis knows that.
He is a lawyer.
The whole state-one of the most terrible things is that, less than two weeks after serving as Minister of Justice, Jeff Sessions deprived people of civil rights, and he said he would not enforce civil rights laws, he claimed the rights of the country? MATTHEWS: Yes.
KEISLING: It\'s really chilling.
Matthews: What about Chapter 9, Travis, you\'re protecting people regardless of their gender or identity?
They can\'t be biased.
Webb: You\'re right.
Therefore, title 9 has been in the book for a long time.
Chapter 9 prohibits gender discrimination.
This is the real meaning of the problem. Right?
How to explain Title 9?
Now, President Obama has reinterpreted this in his direction last year.
This will only bring us back to where we have been for the last few decades.
We exist-in the current situation, with the cancellation of this guideline, schools can do whatever they want.
On this issue, a place can do what it wants to do.
Matthews: what should they do?
What do you think they should do?
Webb: they should solve these problems.
Matthews: But what should they do in terms of policy?
Webb: It depends on what\'s going on in that place.
Matthews: What do you think they should do?
What is your position?
Weber: So, in general, students use their biological bathroom.
It is important that who\'s right is ignored and who\'s right is ignored. (CROSSTALK)
Ravien, are you still there? (CROSSTALK)
Lavin Cox is still with us.
What do you think, Laverne?
I\'m talking about theory.
I know he\'s a lawyer.
But Judge Scalia believes-he believes it\'s a hero of many conservatives, look at the left --
Wing is written. It says sex.
It says Chapter 9 of gender.
So it should give rights to transgender people. Go ahead.
Laverne, you should have the rights of transgender people.
Cox: Well, Gavin Green is a young man going to the Supreme Court, and the question of this ninth title will be decided by the Supreme Court for the first time.
In fact, the lower court has just determined that Gavin is indeed covered by Chapter 9.
Some courts across the country have determined that chapter IX covers transgender people.
Part of Chapter 9 is gender and gender stereotypes. Right?
So if we look at the law, it\'s actually-I believe it does protect transgender people.
I hope the Supreme Court\'s decision will support that.
I think it is important to improve the life experience of the trans population again, not to talk to the theory.
The fact is that transgender people have been using the bathroom for many years without any accidents.
All the things, all the privacy issues that exist in the Texas act.
6. the self-proclaimed Privacy Act indicates that the privacy of young girls will be compromised by me and young transgender girls, which is not the case.
This is not the case. (CROSSTALK)
Let me ask you a question.
Should Laverne use the men\'s toilet? WEBER: So. . (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: So, you said it again -- you\'re the tongue --tied about…(CROSSTALK)
Should Mara use the men\'s toilet?
Kesslin: Travis knew that he would be frightened if I walked into the men\'s toilet with him.
Laverne and I can\'t use the men\'s toilet and should not use the men\'s toilet.
By the way, if we want to go back to the situation for decades, we will put these things aside and make people adults.
The Obama administration has reinterpreted this and Travis is wrong.
Keep in mind that the case of Grimm in Grimm, which Laverne is talking about, will be referred to the Circuit Court before this guide.
Because the court said that Chapter 9 protected us, this guidance was made.
Chapter 9 does not protect us because of this guidance. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: By the way, who else is on this side besides transgender people?
Because I think your point is that some people feel comfortable being hurt by transgender people and walking into the bathroom.
You said someone was hurt.
Who is the person who was hurt?
Weber: High school students.
So, remember, this guidance . . . . . . Matthews: Who\'s hurt?
Weber: High school students.
Matthews: describe it.
What\'s the harm?
Webb: Chris, I think when you have a 14 . . . . . . Matthews: I don\'t know. WEBER: OK.
Let me explain.
Matthews: put it out. WEBER: A 14-year-
The old girl in the locker room, someone came to their locker room with male genitals, and of course they would be hurt.
Their rights are not protected here.
All I ask is a reasonable discussion that takes into account their rights.
This question is decided by these places.
That\'s what we can do now.
President Obama-President Obama will authorize everyone.
The question is now decided by the place.
Not very clear either-
Cut under Title Nine
Chapter 9 is about gender discrimination.
Some problems are being resolved by the court. (CROSSTALK)
Matthews: Mara, respond to what he described.
KEISLING: He said Chapter 9 is gender discrimination, excluding transgender people.
Then he said the bathroom should be based on biology.
MATTHEWS: Well, now he\'s talking about the locker room.
Let\'s expand it.
Webb: There are many different questions here.
The important thing is . . . . . . CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, if you want to respond, what do you respond to his, his-ravien\'s way.
We don\'t have much time here.
But I think we will express this in real language. Go ahead.
Cox: I think it\'s important that when we talk to transgender people and talk about transgender people, we don\'t shrink our body parts.
We are not just the sum of our parts.
It is so objective and depersonalized to talk about trans people and narrow us down to body parts.
This is really disturbing.
We need to look at the evidence.
We need to look at hundreds of places in the country that are protected by public accommodation.
This is what we call trans.
He claimed that nothing had actually happened.
On the contrary, transgender people feel that they have the right to survive in society.
My transformation is about my existence in public space and the prosperity of society.
I can thrive because I can do it.
That\'s what we want.
Matthews: The last sentence.
Thank you, Laverne Cox.
Thank you so much, Mara Keisling and Travis Webb. Thank you all.
Webb: Thank you.
Matthews: next, as we hope, the hard ball round table will be held here-well, we will wait for Vice President Mike Pence and his CPAC presentation.
This is happening in real time.
You might say that Pence was part of the clean-up team and he told allies that a lot of what President Trump said didn\'t mean much.
Well, I think it\'s a comfort to some people.
We will hear what he said to the base tonight.
This is a hard ball. where is the action. (
Business break)
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
We are waiting for news from Vice President Pence tonight-he is actually an important guest of the CPAC.
This is in Washington.
If we can find his speech, we will bring you the wonderful part of his speech.
By the way, President Trump will address the CPAC tomorrow morning.
Since joining the ticket, Vice President Pence has actually cleaned up his boss from time to time.
Yesterday, the vice president suddenly visited the Jewish cemetery in St. Louis, where hundreds of headstones were knocked down.
Last week, the vice president traveled to Europe to reassure our worried allies that yes, we believe in NATO, we are committed to Europe and NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
Anyway, according to The Washington Post, some European leaders suspect that the vice president is a shadow president or a shadow of the president.
Very smart for them.
People who are equally smart have joined us, but the Americans, the chief investigative journalist for politicians, Ken Vogel, and Michelle Bernard, chairman of the Bernard women\'s center, and Mark Payne, the founders of the stagwell Group, Bill Clinton and former advisers to Hillary Clinton.
Thank you for coming, Mark.
You have a new poll today.
According to the poll I got, Mike Pence\'s approval rating was 47%.
Trump received 45% support.
So, does Trump now know that Pence is better suited to be his agent than himself?
Mark Payne, a Democratic strategist: Oh, I think there\'s no doubt about that.
I think we started a month\'s investigation. Harris poll.
In this poll, Trump is the most popular person in the government.
In fact, Bernie Sanders is the most popular in the country.
But what will Trump do when his vice president is more popular than he is?
Matthews: Pence is the most popular.
Pan en: Pence is the most popular in government.
Look at Bannon. he\'s been down to 20%.
So, the people he sent out in the campaign and Kelly Conway were negative.
So, it\'s really hard for these people to go out and talk for Trump right now.
That man is pence.
When you get to Europe, about 40-
The gap between Trump and Pence.
This is true, Michelle.
I mean, you\'re talking about bad publicity.
Bannon has always been there.
He\'s like Darth Vader.
Michelle Bernard, founder of Bernard Center for Women, Politics and Policy: Yes.
But he might like it.
Matthews: but he is a good speaker.
I saw him today.
He knows how to speak.
But he\'s a little strong, but it\'s part of the deal he gets.
He\'s-he\'s the kind of tough guy at the White House. BERNARD: Yes.
Matthew: But Kellyanne, she has a problem.
Let\'s be honest.
But when people say yes, I believe in NATO, Pence will step down. BERNARD: Yes.
Matthews: Tillerson said we will not fight war with our geographic information system, men and women to get them killed and maimed and sometimes more terrible so we can get moreBERNARD: Yes.
What they say is very clever.
Why didn\'t the president say smart things because his base didn\'t want to hear him?
Because the base didn\'t want to hear from him.
You know, he was not elected because of this?
I think he made a very sharp decision when he got Mike Pence to play, he was calm and he was stable.
When everyone else in the government is working, you know, here, it\'s very surprising to hear his voice-and even his tone can be very calm, because taking into account Mike Pence\'s thoughts on so many social issues before the election, one would think that people would not feel calm on Mike Pence.
But that\'s what he gave them.
Matthews: don\'t pay attention to the man behind the curtain. BERNARD: Yes.
Matthews: I mean, it\'s really weird because I don\'t think he\'s as good at manipulation as Dick Cheney.
I think Cheney manipulated a smaller mind called the president at the time, and he knew how to manipulate the guy.
Bernard: Well, Pence is sincere.
Matthews: Pence has a traditional Christian that is hard to accept-and I must say that his view of the world is Christian conservative, which is very consistent and predictable.
Trump is a combination of voting.
Ken Vogel, politics: Yes.
I mean, he also understands how politics is inherently working that Trump doesn\'t understand.
So, he translated Trump-Matthews: Who will you trust?
But who will you believe?
Yes, I mean, somewhere-Matthews: I\'m asking you this question.
Vogel:-it\'s a direct conflict, and it\'s clear in this case that you have to trust Trump.
Matthews: NATO sucks. they don\'t pay for it. The guy said, no, we need NATO.
This is a difference.
Vogel: I think if it\'s possible to make a distinction, you\'ll see that the government is separate from Trump.
Trump has said something that is a bit off the reservation, there are some serious policy types in your government who are trying to figure out the direction, where to find the middle ground, and the voices of these people are pence.
So, he\'s their voice-Bernard: You used the word \"translation\"-Vogel: Yes.
That\'s what he did.
Like Donald Trump tweeted a lot about how he would repeal and replace Obamacare, Pence said, step 1 --(CROSSTALK)
Matthews: Mark and I have been together for a while.
Mark, Don Reagan, he\'s an arrogant cry, and Don Reagan will say, I\'m cleaning up the crew for the elephant.
Reagan heard it.
He is an elephant.
This does not work for him. He was gone.
Now they can clean up the elephants with immunity.
They say he\'s not doing the right thing. I\'m telling the truth. he\'s the president of the United States. how can they continue to do this?
Mark penn, former chief strategist for hillary clinton\'s campaign: Well, look, it\'s a bit of a good cop/bad cop routine, just the other way around, right
Mike Pence is a good cop. Trump is a bad cop.
The way he negotiated was to create complete uncertainty about his real ideas.
So, no matter who is close, what does NATO think?
Does he support us? Is he not?
Will he-do we have to pay these bills?
Maybe we have to pay the bill. We don`t know.
What are we going to do, Pence?
They will, said Pence.
No, maybe not, Trump said.
I think it\'s part of the strategy. BERNARD: Yes.
I think you just have to think about it, maybe Trump isn\'t totally crazy because Mike Pence seems to make sense, maybe it\'s a strategy. MATTHEWS: OK.
Let\'s talk about CPAC today.
I went to CPAC ten years ago.
I used to go because it reminded me of the previous Yafu era.
Young Free AmericanIt`s all right.
They are them.
But they seem to be stronger now than before.
I \'ve been thinking, how can you make such a big shift?
Republicans tend to supportfree trade.
That\'s what they think.
Free trade, you know?
You know what, Adam?
Now, I think they\'re all trading with him.
They are very hawkish, and he is not very hawkish.
A lot of things, they are not crazy against immigrationimmigrant. Now, they are.
How do they convert as a group?
It\'s like a religious thing where 500 people get married on the same day.
I mean, how did this happen?
Vogel: Yes, I think the CPAC has lost its place as a moral compass for Matthews: are they trump cards?
Are they ahead now?
I think so.
It\'s not just a few decades ago, it\'s not just the William Buckley era-Matthews, it\'s such a noticeable change: but they love Russia now.
Vogel: But even last year, Trump withdrew from the CPAC because of the protests. Matthews: Hey Mark, why do they support-they like Russia now, the wing on the right
Penn: well, but they\'re just-look, they\'re just following Trump.
I think you\'re right.
Trump-they never thought they would have so much power and never thought Trump would win.
They feel it is in our interest.
Although we totally disagree with Trump on the 70% issue, we have to really cater to Trump a bit.
MATTHEWS: Well, in our recent poll, 90% of Republicans like Trump. identified. Go figure.
Anyway-Penn: grass roots?
Matthews: Republicans join the party and Democrats join the party.
Democrats don\'t love anyone now.
Anyway, the hard ball round table will be with us as we continue to wait for US Vice President Mike Pence to take the stage at CPAC. There it is.
He\'s coming.
Also, new reports about Trump\'s campaign manager and content-he\'s not there yet.
It\'s kind of like a threat of extortion.
We can discuss this now.
It is believed that Paul Manafort was basically threatened with extortion.
We will talk about this when we come back.
This is a hard ball. where is the action. (
Business break)
Matthews: Welcome back to hard ball.
According to a report by Ken Vogel today on \"politics\", Donald Trump\'s former campaign manager became a victim of extortion attempts when he ran for the election last summer.
According to the report, Paul Manafort\'s daughter received a message from a person who claimed to be a Ukrainian politician who threatened to expose Manafort\'s relationship with his former pro-
Ukrainian leader Vladimir Putin
The politician denied that his message came from politics \".
Manafort denied any wrongdoing in his work in Ukraine.
We went back to the Round Table, Ken, Michelle and Mark. Ken, you go.
How good is this?
How strong is this now?
VOGEL: The hacking started.
Matthews: Is there a threat of blackmail? VOGEL: Yes.
We just don\'t know who did it.
This could be an effort for the Ukrainian MP.
All we know is that it\'s a bit out of the realm of assumptions and into the real world, and Democrats have raised that concern about how Matthews is.
Let\'s come back and remind everyone-why did Trump abandon Manafort after working for him for a while?
Vogel: it\'s because he\'s in Ukraine for this pro-
Political figure of Putin, Viktor Yanukovych-DoNews: So, there\'s something.
Vogel: There\'s absolutely something there.
He has to pull out of the campaign-MATTHEWS: Well, the second question that comes to mind is, how is Manafort with Trump?
How did they get together?
Is it Russia?
Vogel: Apparently, he was introduced to him by a guy named Tom Ballack-Matthews: Oh, I know Tom Vogel, he\'s a financier in California, manafort has worked for Tom Barrack, but the blackmail email alleges that, in fact, Manafort worked with Trump as early as 2012 to hold a broker meeting with others.
Ukrainian politician Vladimir Putin
This is what the White House claimed in this email did not comment on.
The Ukrainian said he did not send an email.
But what we see is how these types of connections are potentially-Matthews: How far has Trump gone in Russia? Do you know?
I mean, Trump-Matthews: when he first went in?
I mean, his business relationship dates back to about ten years.
Matthews: I heard more.
What do you say, Michelle?
Bernard: Well, I mean, I-MATTHEWS: this is at the heart of the whole mess, and this is the entanglement between the Trump campaign and the Russians?
Bernard: sure, because if you look at your tweet and your report, once you-you have to deal with the first issue, it\'s the authenticity of Twitter, the authenticity of e-commerce.
Email to Manafort\'s daughter
If they are real, there are a lot more there.
Matthews: Yes.
We will come back with you.
Here is the speech by Vice President Mike Pence at the CPAC, who greets the applause we haven\'t heard yet. (MUSIC)(
Cheers and applause)(
The crowd chanting \"America\"
Mike Pence, Vice President of the United States: Hello, CPAC! (
Cheers and applause)
It was a pleasure to return to the party of conservative prime ministers in the United States. (
Cheers and applause)
You know, this is the ninth time I \'ve had the privilege of speaking to CPAC.
Thanks to all of you and to our new president for your trust, this is my first time here as vice president of the United States. (
Cheers and applause)
Because of all of you, because of your hard work, your support and your prayers, my family and I are fortunate enough to serve you.
More importantly, because of all of you, my friend Donald Trump is the 45 President of the United States. (
Cheers and applause)
The president and I have become good friends.
The vice president who became such a leader of faith, vision and courage was the greatest honor of my life.
Now some people say we are a little different. (LAUGHTER)
I am from a small town. he is a big city.
I\'m in the Midwest. he\'s Manhattan island.
He\'s big-than-
The personality of life, his charm, his charm, I like-don\'t like it. (LAUGHTER)
As I said at the Republican convention, I think he just wanted to balance.
Joking aside, when President Trump asked me to buy tickets with him, my heart beat faster and said yes, because you have elected someone for the president who never quit, he never flinch, he is a warrior, he is a winner, and I assure you-he will never stop fighting until we make America great again. (
Cheers and applause)
You know, from the beginning, our president reminded me of someone else, someone who inspired me to join the conservative cause 40 years ago.
President Reagan(
Cheers and applause)
I believe President Trump has expressed the aspirations and frustration of the American people, just as there have been no leaders since Reagan.
All I know is that our new president will rekindle our cause and start again in our own time.
That\'s what he did.
President Trump has won a historic victory in the United States. (
Cheers and applause)Think about it.
30 of the 50 states, including those that the Republican generation did not have, President Donald Trump turned the blue wall into red. (
Cheers and applause)
Do you know?
Institutions have never seen it come. (LAUGHTER)
I mean, the media, the elite, the insiders, and all the people who profit from maintaining the status quo, they fired our president at every step of the way.
While firing him, they also fired millions of forgotten men and women who worked hard and made the country great.
To make matters worse, they are still trying to fire him.
They\'re still trying to fire all of us.
What they should learn on election day is that this is not the government of elite, media or institutions.
The situation in November 8 shows that even if they do not listen, it is still the government of the people, the government of the people, the government of the people. (
Cheers and applause)
Matthews: We \'ve been listening to Vice President Mike Pence speaking to the crowd tonight at CPAC.
We will continue to monitor the vice president.
Now we are back at our hard ball round table.
Ken, this is the religion of the old age.
This is a good speech.
I can see that it works with people, people.
20 years ago, 30 years ago, he could have given it.
He got a lot of votes.
We like to be elected.
It\'s like Donald Trump\'s speech.
Telling about the election victory and Matthews: but also reviewing Trump\'s enthusiasm for Reagan.
Vogel: I don\'t think some of the audience could sit very well compared to Reagan.
But that\'s why he can compete with Trump and why Trump likes to get him into government-Matthews: he has a connection to religion.
Vogel: But, I mean, like, you know, the poll numbers quoted by Mark, Trump is more unpopular than everyone else, Trump is a regular-it really bothers Trump, but it\'s not because Pence is a subordinate.
Matthews: how many people have passed the vote, Michelle.
I think people believe in pence.
That\'s what they said about Bobby Kennedy.
This guy believes what he said.
That\'s why I think Gay people are worried about Penny.
He really believes in his position.
Women were concerned about his position on reproductive rights.
He is real.
Trump is like a fan dancer.
He came up with this shtick, you know, \"I\'m a professional.
Oh, yes. okay. Or I`m anti-gay.
No, you`re not.
But we know why you did it.
Bernard: Yes, that\'s-Matthews: Fan dancers may not be the best demonstration-Bernard: he may not like it.
But, you know, about Pence, you know, his aw-
I\'m just a man in a small town.
Matthews: Oh my God.
Bernard: You know, people like it. it can be either armed or deceptive.
Matthews: effective.
Bernard: It works with the crowd, but it\'s also terrible because it hides the fear of Mike Pence, hiding those things that shame me if you happen to be gay, minority or female-Bernard: Well, that\'s what I\'m going to say, because behind the shield are people who don\'t believe in LGBT communities, African rights --
He\'s anti-American. choice. Scary.
Matthews: It sounds warm, doesn\'t it? BERNARD: Yes. PENN: Yes.
I think there are a few things.
I think we learned a loyal vice president from Gore, and even if you don\'t believe everything he says, at least he is loyal.
I think the vice president should be respected.
I think we now have a vice president at the White House who is running for president and we haven\'t had it for a while.
Matthews: I agree.
That means he will have great influence.
Matthews: I think loyalty is one thing that covers a lot of sin, because loyalty is a good value.
So we like dogs. BERNARD: Yes.
But the question is, is loyalty important to Donald Trump?
If Mike Pence\'s approval rating is getting higher and higher, how long will this loyalty last?
How long will it pay off?
Matthews: if he is going to be re-elected, do you think he will get rid of this situation in the next four years? He`ll need him.
Bernard: he needs him, especially in dealing with the members on the hill, but we don\'t know-Matthews: how do we get to 2020?
We took it off the table.
Does this Russian thing have legs?
Oh, of course.
Matthews: will this go deep into the big congressional investigation? Is this real?
Vogel: there must be-for example, we heard a story today, and the White House-Reince pribas actually spoke to the FBI-Matthews-to ask them to kill the story. VOGEL: Yes.
Okay, let them come out and guarantee the White House and say it\'s not-no senior officials are involved.
DoNews: What is Comey\'s response?
Vogel: We know that they will go on, no matter what investigation they have.
Matthews: I don\'t think he will get Comey\'s help on this kid.
Anyway, Ken Vogel, thank you. the report is great.
Great polls, Michelle Bernard and Mark Payne.
Now, it\'s time for Trump to focus on Thursday, February 23, 2017.
Republicans are now learning the high price of Donald Trump as their leader.
You can call it a sticker impact.
You can catch decibels at town meetings of Republicans who dare to hold such open-air, public rallies to defy Trump.
What we \'ve heard at these meetings is that 90% of Republicans, nine out of ten who support the new president, have clear differences between most of the countries that oppose him.
This means that from now until November 2018, becoming a Republican representative will face two
Front-line war-avoid wild fires like the Washington CPAC convention and face critics of Donald Trump coming to you from the left.
Protect your reputation on the one hand and your status as a member of Congress on the other.
This means that Republicans need to have some alt before crossing the road or in this case-
You don\'t think the right person will attend that event or vote too much with Trump because that means hurting people on the kitchen table at home.
It\'s a tricky thing to be a Republican now.
This should be the case.
Hard ball now.
Thank you for being with us.
\"Now with Chris Hayes \".
This is a report card in a hurry.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated. END
Custom message
Chat Online 编辑模式下无法使用
Chat Online inputting...